Individual
CE
Bill O'Hanlon, M.S., LMFT - Rewriting Love Stories
Sexuality and Intimacy: Paradox, Transcendence, and Spirit
New Orleans � May 8-10, 2003
Rewriting Love Stories: Brief Solution-Oriented Therapy With Couples
Bill O'Hanlon, M.S., LMFT (SEX23-07)
O'HANLON: This is Rewriting Love Stories . Your handouts are actually in your packet, if you haven't oriented them yet, and the ones we'll use for this are numbered 20 to 24. I see some of you are back for more�gluttons for punishment, huh? All right. I'll try and say something different in this one. I can make up new stuff, you know?
All right. You have those handouts. If you didn't orient to the beginning of my handouts, I always give permission for you to reproduce these handouts for clients, colleagues, or whatever you want, so you have my permission. You may not want to take notes on them, if you decide to give them away, so I'm just warning you about that up-front. There's the CEU signup sheet that's coming around here, so you want to make sure you put your name and license number on that, if you need CEUs.
I'll have a PowerPoint slide that will supplement what we do. You don't need to take notes on that, it's just sort of a supplement on what we are doing. Some of you have been here in the middle, between, or before the presentations, and I play a little music, and some of you ask, "Oh, what's that music? It's really nice." This presentation's actually going to have music in it, so we'll have integrated music and we'll have a little video clip in this as well. This will be a multi-modal presentation.
So we're going to talk about...again, we have about an hour and a half together, and we're going to talk three ideas. I've done these a lot, and I find, as I said last session, if I try and do more than three, I just get too rushed. So three simple ideas for doing brief couples therapy.
Now why do brief couples therapy? Because if you don't do brief couples therapy, they'll probably be divorced before you get to the long couples therapy. Because what I've noticed in my office�maybe it hasn't been true for you�people don't usually come in for a tune-up in their relationship, they come in on the way to divorce court. They pull into your parking lot and say, "One of us is thinking of getting a divorce...both of us are thinking of getting divorced...or breaking up...and we just thought we ought to stop, just to make sure we're not making a mistake." Or, "One of us doesn't want to break up and the other one does. Is there a way for us to change this?"
So my sense is, you could do long-term therapy, but if you don't get some change happening fairly quickly�within the first, second, or third session�usually, they're going to get discouraged, and the relationship may go by the wayside. So that's why I'm an advocate for brief couples therapy. Also because I've been doing this work for awhile, and I found, you know, at least for me, that it works, so I'm going to be enthusiastic about this, and advocate for this way of working.
Actually, I will be happy to send you a copy of this presentation on slides, if you want. But if you could write me not on the address that's on the handouts, but I've just gotten an assistant, and I've gotten a new E‑mail address where she can send them out, so I don't spend all my time on E-mails, because I get five or 600 E-mails a week, as you might imagine. She said she would send them out for me, so if it goes to that address, I won't have to forward it to her, and it will save me one step from doing it.
So just tell me what the name of the presentation was, where it was, and she will be sending that out to you. Even if you don't have PowerPoint on your computer, she will send you an E-mail message that'll tell you where to get a free player for it. It was created in PowerPoint, and that goes on Windows and Macintosh�it's a Microsoft program. Even though I say this in my presentations, "We'll E-mail it to you as an attachment," some people seem to misunderstand and think that it's on my Web site, which is also listed on my handouts. It's not on my Web site.
I don't know where people get that, but every workshop, one or two people write me and say, "You said it was on your Web site and it's not on your Web site, and they get really upset. So I'm just saying, it's not on my Web site�you hallucinated that, if you... I just got one today, this morning, someone wrote me and said, "I've looked all over your Web site, it's not on there," and I always say, "It's not on my Web site." I didn't at first, because I just thought...I'm just saying, "I'll E-mail it to you."
So in order to get these slides, you actually have to download them, so you need to know how to download. If you don't, ask your children, or someone who knows how to work computers how to do it. All right? It's not that hard. Then, if you download it...some people write me after they download it and say, "Where is it in my computer?" I have no idea where it is in your computer! I am not on your computer. It's amazing to me.
All right. So here's the sneak preview of where we're going in the next hour or so. Three steps, or three levels, whatever you want to say.
The first thing is creating a context for validation and acceptance�not blaming. We'll talk about how to do that.
The second thing is: Get video or action descriptions, to get away from blaming, and start the change process, and help you to understand what people are unhappy about and what they want.
The third thing is to change patterns of viewing, doing, and context--we're going to talk about what those mean. Change patterns is basically the third thing.
So we're going to cover those three in the time that we have together.
Now, this is a solution-oriented approach, and if you don't know the solution-oriented approach--some of you do and some of you don't--it may be a little jarring if you don't know these assumptions. But basically, a solution-oriented approach is present-oriented towards the future, typically. It's not so past-oriented, that is, not so interested in what the explanations for why the problems have occurred�that is, the therapist-derived explanations, maybe client explanations, we're interested in, but we don't pursue them a lot�and it's mostly oriented towards what can work and what has worked, rather than what hasn't work and what's not working and what's caused the problems.
So I can contrast these as explanatory theories and solution-oriented theories. I was at the Evolution of Psychotherapy Conference a number of years ago, and I went to every presentation and I agreed with all of them, and they all disagreed with each other. What I realized was, there are hundreds of explanations for [why people have] problems. There are gender-based explanations, there are economic explanations, there are physical explanations, physiological and neurological explanations, there's emotional explanations, there's family of origin explanations.
There's all sorts of reasons why people have problems, and in every case, there's probably some element of one of those, in some cases more of one aspect, but at the end of the day, what we have to do in therapy is help people change. Sometimes just having a good explanation doesn't do that. You ultimately have to do something that helps them change. So solution-oriented therapy bypasses, doesn't pass Go, doesn't collect $200, just goes right for the solution part of it. We're interested in what helps people change, much more than what keeps them stuck or maintains the problem. All right?
So I just wanted to give you this quick orientation, because the rest of it makes more sense, as we go through it, based on these ideas.
So what I've noticed is that trying to change another person usually doesn't work too well, and that's almost always what's happening when people first come in for couples therapy. They know where the problem is�it's over there, it's within the other person�almost always, not always. I was working with this couple one time and this guy...you know, one of those first sessions where the guy comes in almost with like twist marks on his arm, because he doesn't want to come in? You've had a few of those sessions, I suspect.
So he's not very interested, he's not a therapy-oriented guy. He's an entrepreneur, and he's kind of a...he's an unusual character, he's kind of obnoxious, I would say, but he has his charms, and I kind of like him when he comes in�you know, because I'm not very therapist-oriented either, so we get along just fine.
So he likes me for a therapist, you know, and he decides he's willing to come back the next time. So I've hooked him in the first time and we made a nice connection. But he's truly pretty obnoxious, and it's worked for him really well at his business�he's made lots of money. It's not working well for him in his marriage�he's alienated his wife quite a bit, and the money's not worth it anymore and she's tired of it. She's tired of the way he treats her, which he does that in his business, and people put up with it for lots of reasons, partly because he's charming and partly because he has a lot of money, so that helps.
So they come in the second time, and I'm not really attending to him, because his basic stance is, "We have a fine marriage; if she didn't complain, everything would be okay." Her stance is, "He treats me like dirt. Then he can be as charming as can be, but that doesn't make up for the treating me like dirt. So I'm not sure I want to be here." So I'm really focused on what she's concerned about and what she's unhappy about, and I'm talking to her about it, and I'm really not attending much to him, because he's not...as I say, he doesn't have any complaints.
All of a sudden, he just explodes from his chair and he said, "I'm sick of this!" I said, "What? What's up?" He said, "You two are sitting here, talking about all the bad things I've done and what's wrong with me," and he said, "I'm just telling you right now, I'm just giving you fair warning, I can't change. You're not going to change me. I'm just the way I am, and you're not going to be able to change me, so just give it up. We might as well leave now, if that's what you're planning."
I said, "I think you misunderstood what I'm interested in. I find you obnoxiously charming"�and he laughed, he knew he was obnoxiously charming�and I said, "I have no interest in changing you. What we're talking about is some things you've said and done with your wife that do not work, that terribly have hurt her feelings, and that she doesn't like. I'm just going to ask you to do a few things and say a few things in a different way. That's it. I have no interest in changing who you are." He said, "Oh, okay. Carry on." That was it�end of the story. He didn't have any more objections after that.
He just got the idea we were going to try and change him. As soon as someone has the idea you're going to try and change who they are, they get defensive. "You can't change me. I'm just this way. This is who I am." And they get...they're feeling shamed or blamed, and they don't change. So I'm going to talk about how to create an atmosphere where, first of all, I accept both of them and communicate that very powerfully, and then invite them to accept each other, without getting into this blame pattern they usually start with, or a conflict pattern. Because usually, when they come in, they're at their worst, actually, with each other�the most suspicious, the most harassed, the most defensive�and doubting each other's sincerity a lot. So I want to undo that fairly quickly in the therapy process.
So I told you this is a multimedia presentation, so I would use some songs, because I think when you talk about relationships, the reality is so subtle, and sometimes we make it sort of cartoonish in what we do in describing it. So I wanted to use some artists to describe it, and here's a�I like rock music�here's a rock musician that I like, an alternative rock musician, Ben Folds. Ben Folds is on his fourth marriage, <laughter> and this was his second one, and this is how he knew it was over, because his partner didn't like him the way he was. He's from North Carolina, he's got a Southern accent, and she basically didn't like him, and tried to make him into something else, so he knew the relationship was over, and it's called, The Best Imitation of Myself .
That's Ben Folds. You could tell that relationship was headed for a little trouble. All right. So how do you create this context? Step one in this context is create a context for validation and acceptance�the exact opposite of what he was experiencing from his partner. The first thing is to block blame, and I'll talk about some techniques to do this in a minute or two.
Separate the being and experience from actions. So what I was saying to that guy in the story that I told to you, the obnoxiously charming guy, is, "I have no interest in changing who you are." As long as you accept people's beings, they're willing to change, I think most of the time�not always�but they're willing to change. All I want to focus on is what they do, what they say. I'm not trying to change who they are. Now, who they are often changes once they change what they do and what they say. But I'm not going to directly try and change that, because it gets people too defensive, and they're already feeling that from their partner�that they're not accepted, that they're bad people, that there's something wrong with them, that they're unacceptable in some sort of way.
You know, when I first learned couples therapy, I learned this, "Get them to turn to each other and communicate with each other." That's the craziest model, I think. I learned really quickly, because they're sitting in my office, screaming at each other like they do at home, and it's just costing them more money, you know, to me. So I remember the kind of moment that I got a different model. I had studied with Erickson and he had a different way of doing it�Milton Erickson, that I mentioned in the last presentation I did.
Also, I saw Virginia Satir once, doing a workshop. I don't know if you ever saw Virginia Satir before she died, but she was a bigger than life person�her personality was bigger than life, but she was also a large person. She was working with a couple, and they're into this, you know, that the couples get into, kind of sniping at each other, and she's on stage with them, and all of a sudden, she just steps in between them, and they can't see each other, and they can't talk to each other, because she's in between them.
She starts to talk to one and kind of calms her down and gets her back to a really loving and centered place, and then steps out and lets them talk to each other from that place. Then the guy kind of responds in a certain way, and she steps in again. She doesn't let them talk to each other when they're blaming or mean, and I thought, "Oh, I thought you were supposed to get them to communicate?" "No, not if they're going to communicate the same old stuff and it's going to push the same old buttons. Stop that communication!"
So I do it in a different way�I'm not that big, number one. Number two, what I do is I have them talk to me; that is, I intercept the conversation, the comment, before it gets to them, and I filter it�I'm like a screen or a filter�and if it's not a great conversation, I just mirror it. If they say something that's really mean or blaming, I mirror it back to them and I change it a little, and then I bring it over to the other person, and have them respond.
So I'll show you again how to do this. But I'm a translator, bridging misunderstandings and filtering out blame and discouragement, I think. How do I do this? I think there's a�when I first learned individual therapy, you were supposed to reflect people's feelings and experiences, saying, "I hear what you're saying, you're saying this."
When you do that in couples, when one of them is saying, "I think he's an obnoxious jerk," and you say, "Okay, so he's an obnoxious..." he's standing right there, he's sitting right there. He doesn't seem to appreciate this reflection, somehow. He takes it as you're taking sides and you're blaming. So I learned a slightly different way, which I call, Carl Rogers with a twist �that you're getting knowledge, while filtering out blame and discouragement, and open possibilities for change. All right? So we're going to talk about that. You actually have that as your handout on page 20.
So I think there's a way to acknowledge each person's feelings and points of view without closing down possibilities for change. So I think therapy stands on two legs�couples therapy, especially: You're going to acknowledge where they are, and then to certainly give the message, "You don't have to change." In another way, the other foot you're going to stand on is change, and possibility, and new ways of thinking and acting. So, "It's okay to be where you are, and you can change. There's nothing wrong with you, you're not a bad person, and there are new possibilities."
So I keep going back and forth between these two feet, often standing on both of them at the same time. Sometimes, I'm mostly leading on the acknowledge side if they're feeling really misunderstood or beleaguered, with a little foot or toe just in Possibility Land. Sometimes, when they're already feeling heard and understood and not so defensive, I'll be learning a lot more in change and possibility, with just a little toe into acknowledgement land.
So how do I do that? That Carl Rogers with a twist technique, there's another one I call the moving walkway . So let's go into the specifics of them. Here's the acknowledgement with a slice of possibility. The first way I do it is when they complain, in a blaming or a discouraging way, I reflect in the past tense. "He never listens to me." "So he really hasn't listened to you." You hear how that's a slight change in what they just said?
Now it puts the problem in the past, which, to me, leaves the present and the future open to possibilities. Maybe he's listening right now. "Do you think he's listening right now?" "Oh, yeah. Well, he's listening now, but that's because you're here." "Okay, well, fine." But at least now, we've started to break the generalization, "He never listens," because there are moments in some context in which he might listen, or maybe he's not listening now too. So that's a possibility, but... The first thing I do is just reflect in the past tense.
The second thing I do is go from global to partial. Usually, when couples come in, they're going to tell you the problem in a globalized way. "She always has to be in control." "She's always criticizing me." "He never does that thing around the house." "We never have sex." "We don't communicate." They have these global kind of statements. Usually, when you get into the details of them, you'll find it's not quite so all or nothing. So what I do is reflect as a partial statement. I say, "So usually...typically...almost always...rarely...almost never..." I change it to a slightly partial statement.
Now I don't go way small, because otherwise, that's invalidating and you're not really listening to them. "So sometimes, he needs to be in control." "Not sometime. All the time." They get even more adamant about their generalization. So if I say, "So almost always, your sense is, he really needs to be in control." "She rarely listens to you." So I put a little bit of a change in there, a little possibility." Because of course, what I'm going to ask him in a little while is, "Tell me about a time when he does listen," or "she does listen," or "she doesn't seem to need to be in control." But first, I'm going to have to bridge that statement that it never happens to when I ask that question. So I'm going to open up possibilities in a little while; right now, I'm just seeding the possibilities.
The third way that I do this with this Carl Rogers with a twist is go from the truth or reality to perception state�that is, "He's a controller." "So your sense is, he really needs to be in control most of the time." You hear how that's a little different? "Your sense of it is..." "The marriage is over." "Oh, so a lot of times, lately, you've been thinking there's no hope for this marriage?"
So I did all three in the last reflection. Past tense�"A lot of time lately, you have been thinking that there's no hope." A lot of time, not always. And, "You've been thinking ," rather than, "This is the way it is." "He wants to ruin our marriage." "So your sense is, with a lot of the things he's done, they almost seemed deliberately designed to destroy the marriage." You hear how I changed the words just a little?
Okay. So this sounds great and it's really easy and you probably do most of it. I just want to make sure that you've got it, because this, to me, is what I spend most of my time in the first bits of the session, when they're telling me the problems, they're really upset, they're really angry. They're not feeling heard, and if you agree with one of them, it seems like you're taking sides. But if you do this with both really quickly, they both start to nod and say basically, "You understand me, and my side of it." So you just go back and forth between them.
So let me...I just want to check that we've got this one and practice a little. When I go to workshops and they say it's time for an exercise, I head to the bathroom. I hate exercises. So this one, you don't have to participate in, it's just kind of a group one. We'll do it all together and some of you will be more vocal than others. But maybe the gears will be moving in your brains, even if you're not talking.
So let's hear from somebody�because some of you work with couples�a very discouraging or blaming statement you've heard from one or both of the partners. Then we'll respond in one of these ways. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: Husband says, �We never have sex.�
O'HANLON: That's great.
AUDIENCE: And the wife keeps track of how often.
O'HANLON: Right. She's kept track of how often...Okay. So yesterday you were doing a session and the husband says, "We never have sex." She pulls out a PalmPilot�the wife�and she has marked down where they've had sex. All right? That's a good one. But let's just take one side of it. So if she says, "Look, we have sex a great deal," in response to that, "and I have the records of it," let's just take the first side of it. If the PalmPilot weren't there, and he says, "We never have sex. This isn't much of a marriage; we don't have sex," what could you say in response to that?
AUDIENCE: It seems to you, you hardly ever have sex.
O'HANLON: Right. Absolutely. "It seems to you, you hardly ever have sex." Okay? You've done two. You've gone the global to partial and then from the truth to reality or perception. Yeah? Go ahead.
AUDIENCE: �It seems to you, you don't have sex as often as you'd like.�
O'HANLON: Right. "It seems to you, you don't have sex as often as you'd like." Yeah. And if they hear it as minimizing, like if the person is really sensitive, they'll say...not..."It seems to me we don't have sex as often as I'd like." So you might say it that way, just, "So you don't have sex as often as you'd like," which is just...you know, it's a slight modulation on what the person said�not disrespectful, still respectful, but not minimizing. You have to walk that line. With some people, that'll be fine, and some people, it's..."That's not what I said. I'm...we don't have sex. It's not 'seems to me. '" Then she pulls out the PalmPilot, and you've got a whole different issue. All right?
So then, let's say she says, "We have sex a lot," and he's shaking his head. "I've got it right here in the PalmPilot," and he's shaking his head. What do you say then? Because now you have two of them with different perceptions. All right? So now give reflections to both of them. She's pulling out a PalmPilot with her data on there about when they've had sex, and she's saying, "I've got it right here; we have sex a lot," and he's shaking his head. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: You could say, � You're not having sex as often as you would like?�
O'HANLON: Yeah. "You're not having sex as often as you would like." All right? But what would you say to her?
AUDIENCE: Maybe something about how often.
O'HANLON: Oh.
AUDIENCE: Like, �You're having sex as often as you'd like.�
O'HANLON: Oh, okay. So you might say, "You're having sex as often as you'd like," and then what would you say to him?
AUDIENCE: Bring up his idea that there is a lack of sex.
O'HANLON: That what?
AUDIENCE: That he believes that he is not having the amount of sex he would like.
O'HANLON: "But your sense is, it's not as much as you'd like. Maybe she's happy with it, but you're not happy with it." Okay, that's one way. What else? Yeah?
AUDIENCE: You could ask them how much sex they want.
O'HANLON: Okay, but you're asking a question, and I don't even want you to go on with the question, because you're not reflecting, at this point; you're asking for more information, which is good. But I'm saying, before you ask the next question, both of them have to be nodding, or else they probably won't move on to the next thing. They'll just go back to blame and invalidation of each other. So before... The what?
AUDIENCE: Ask them if they know what they want.
O'HANLON: Right, does she..."Do you know what you want?" You might ask that, but first, I just want to say, basically, "I've heard you two." Even if they're not speaking, like he's just over there like this...because sometimes, he's not going to be very verbal. So I'll say, "So she says your sex life is a lot more frequent than you say it is, and you're saying either that data isn't"�you're just going to guess�"either that data isn't right, or it doesn't matter how many times she marks it down in the PalmPilot, it's not satisfying for you."
When you get them both nodding, then go to the next question. That's what I'm suggesting. First, get them both nodding, so they feel heard, because otherwise, what I find is they go back to, "You don't understand." "You don't understand." "This guy's a sex maniac, and you've really got to work with him." You know, like, "I don't care if he tells me how often he wants it, because he's addicted." So we can't get to it until they both feel really heard. Yeah?
AUDIENCE:
O'HANLON: I remember that, yeah.
AUDIENCE: You know, "We never have sex, maybe three times a week," and she's saying in her therapy, "We have sex all the time, we do it three times a week."
O'HANLON: Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, that's really good. That's exactly it. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: Do you remember theWoody Allen film about relationships, Annie�.
O'HANLON: Yeah, I remember, Annie Hall or something. Yeah, yeah. I remember that.
AUDIENCE: Could you bring a scene from the movie in?
O'HANLON: Yeah. I remember. So that's the perception question, and you could ask a question like that, or you could just reflect it, or you could tell that story, saying, "You know, I saw this Woody Allen movie and do you remember this scene?...So I'm suspecting that you're saying, 'Wow, we don't have it very much,' and you're saying, 'We have it a fair amount,' and maybe you even agree with what's on the PalmPilot." So you might do that as a reflection. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: Or, "How would you describe sex ?"
O'HANLON: "How would you describe sex ?" That's exactly right. So there is some more information you could get, but really quickly, I want to do that reflection. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: You want to make sure both see sex the same way.
O'HANLON: Yeah. You want to see if you can clear this up, because there's been some conflicts in this. Then they're both nodding, at that point. Or, one of them is saying, "No, that's not the real problem." Then that clarifies for you. "The real problem is, he treats me like dirt, so it doesn't matter, because I don't want to have sex with him." "Oh, okay. So for you, the sexual part of the relationship really seems to be a crucial problem. For you, it seems like something else; it seems like how you interact together." Then that'll clarify, because if you make a guess like that, pretty quickly, they'll either both be nodding, and if they're nodding, you move on to the next bit. If they're not, then they'll correct you. That's a good one. Because my goal, in the first minute or two or five minutes, when they're complaining, is to get them both saying, "He (or she) who's listening to me really understands. They're not taking sides and they really understand." And also to communicate a little hope. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: "As often as we have sex, it's important to remember..."
O'HANLON: "As often as we have sex..."
AUDIENCE: "...it's important to remember."
O'HANLON: "...it's important to remember."
AUDIENCE: "... and remember."
O'HANLON: Yeah. "... and remember." Okay. Good. All right. So one more problem like a blaming statement that you...you've heard in couples therapy...
AUDIENCE: �He never helps out around the house.�
O'HANLON: I've heard that once or twice, "He never helps me around the house. He never does a thing around the house." Okay? Again, let's imagine that he's sitting there shaking his head at this point, or rolling his eyes. Okay, that's good. Yeah, rolling his eyes, that's good. Now how do you speak to her, what she just said, and to him, because he's rolling his eyes at this point?
AUDIENCE: �He rarely helps you out around the house.�
O'HANLON: "He rarely helps you out around the house." Good.
AUDIENCE: Or, "In the past, he �."
O'HANLON: Yeah. Well, I wouldn't telegraph it quite so much. "In the past, he has really..." "So, he's rarely helped you around the house." I just say it in the past tense, rather than "in the past." Yeah? Right. "So your sense is, he rarely helps around the house, and your sense is, she's always harping on...she's harping on this a lot, or this isn't such an issue, or you think you do...you think she nags you constantly about this or a lot about this." I'd be watching each of them, because I'm making some guesses, like you were making a guess, that you both want to resolve this really, and one of them is nodding and the other one is just shaking their head. "No, that's not the issue." So I say, "So, for you, that's not really the issue." I'm watching them while I'm doing these reflections, because if you don't do both of them, you're going to lose one of them pretty quickly."
AUDIENCE: The guy would be apt to say, "She wants me to do everything in her time and her way."
O'HANLON: Right. All right. So maybe...if that's his response, "Well, yeah, I don't do that much around the house, but she wants me to do everything in her time and her way, and she's nagged me if I don't...endlessly." All right, so what do you say to him, then? Then what do you turn to her and say while she's sitting there thinking, "Well, now looking like the bad guy"?
AUDIENCE: �So he hasn't been helping you with the kind of things that you want, and it looks like he thinks he's really been contributing in other ways that are really important."
O'HANLON: Yeah. "So he hasn't been helping you with the kind of things that you want, and it looks like he thinks he's really been contributing in other ways that are really important." Yeah. Then again, you notice that they both nod, or she rolls her eyes, at this point, and whether you've really met them, at that point.
AUDIENCE: Or you could say, "It seems that both of you have had difficulty defining sex and how often you both want to have sex�"
O'HANLON: "So some types of conflicts aren't around whether or he does it or not, the conflicts have been around the way it gets communicated about when he does it and how he does it, and so that's a lot of the conflict that you've been having." If they're both nodding, then you say, "Ooh, now we've got it. Now we can move on to the next question: "What do you mean, helping around the house? What does that mean and when does it happen?"
Then you get to the questions, because there's a lot you don't understand about it, but first, create that atmosphere where they're not so contentious, or, in my experience, they're going to right back to the old pattern they do at home. I want to interrupt it within the first couple of minutes, to get them off that railroad track that I was talking about in the last session, get them off that and start them down a slightly different track, as quickly as I can, because otherwise, I notice, they go right to it.
Now here's another way to do it. I call this the moving walkway , and that is because I travel a lot, and you know, you get into the airport and you get on these moving sidewalks that take you towards where you want to go, if you're heading in the right direction, I have discovered. They take you to where you want to go, and you don't even have to do anything yet. So this is a verbal way to invite people into a future that they want more than the past that they don't want.
So what if the couple says, "We fight all the time"? What I typically say is...I don't just say, "So you fight a lot." That's one way to do it. But one of the other ways that I do it is invite them into the future and say, "So you'd really like to get along or settle things a lot quicker and a lot easier than you have been?" They both are nodding at that point, because then you've done what you've said, which is, "You really would like to work out this sexual thing in your relationship and be more compatible in the sexual area, and have both of you be happy with it." They're both nodding at that point, because that's something that they both want. But even if only one of them is nodding, I'm just asking, "So what do you want... So you'd like him to do some things without you talking to him, and do more things around the house?" Yeah. And, "You'd like her to trust that you would do those things, even if it isn't her way, in a good way," and he's nodding. All right?
So you hear how...because what happens for me is, in that very first few minutes of the couples therapy session, they're going to invite me back into the molasses with them, and the molasses is in the past�who's to blame and what's wrong and all the terrible things that have happened. If I wander back in there, I start to get as stuck as they do�I can feel my feet sticking really quickly. I also start to get opinions on who's the really bad one, the real jerk or harpy.
So what I want to do very, very quickly is put down a board in that molasses, and the first board I put down is, "Okay, I understand, and it's a little less terrible than you're telling me, because I bet it's a little more modulated." So I put down one board in terms of "Most of the time...usually...often...your sense of it is, it's really been bad in the past, but the present/future." That's one board.
The second board I put down is, "What would you like in the future? I'm going to guess about it now and you're either going to nod or you're not, or you're going to shake your head. 'So we never have sex.' So you'd really like to have sex more often." He nods. Then I notice she's kind of pulling out a PalmPilot, and I say, "So your sense is, you already have sex a fair amount." "Yes!" "And you'd really like him to appreciate that you do have sex a fair amount." "Yes!" she nods. Now you've got them both nodding again. All right?
So the moving walkway is moving from the problem to the preference, from the past to the goals, or what they want, and there's several elements to it: Rephrase what they've just told you when you reflect it. Now, this isn't a question one, again; this is a pure reflection into from, "Here's what you don't want" to "Here's what you do want"�from the past to the future. Mention the presence of something rather than the absence of something. Instead of saying, "So you don't want her to nag so much"�that's what he wants to stop�"You'd really like her to let you know when you've done it in a way that she really likes." Or, "You'd really like more support from her when you do it in your own way." Or something like that. What do they want instead of the lack of the problem?
Then I usually talk about it in small increments. "So you'd like see a little more acknowledgment of your efforts around the house than you have." Okay? "Just a little more..." "You two would like to get along just a little better." "You'd like to have a little more sex than you've been having, maybe a lot more, but at least a little more." You get that...because it's easier to do the small pieces than the big ones. Instead of get along all the time, "You'd like to get along a little better...have things go a little more smoothly between the two of you."
All right. So again, let's make problem statements. Let's do..."Well, he never listens to me." What would you say if you were using this moving walkway future technique?
AUDIENCE: "You'd really like him to listen a little bit more."
O'HANLON: Yeah. You did it really well. You get a gold star. A for that one, [...]. "You'd really like him to listen a little bit more." What the person wants�you can guess it from what they say they don't want, it's usually the opposite of that�and you put in "just a little more," which is a nice modulation, because he's over there saying, "Well, I...she wants me to sit and listen to her for hours, and I can't..." Then it makes it a little more. All right? We fight all the time. "You'd like to get along a little bit better, or get along, or settle things a little more quickly than you usually do." All right? How about, "She's too soft on the kids, and she's going to ruin them. They're going to grow up to be criminals."
AUDIENCE: "I do think she needs to be a little stricter, but she thinks I'm an ogre for suggesting that."
O'HANLON: Okay, yeah. "I do think she needs to be a little stricter, but she thinks I'm an ogre for suggesting that." What could you say to that with the future technique?
AUDIENCE: "So you'd like for him to lighten up a little more on the kids, and you would like for her to support you a little more in keeping the rules and the boundaries,"
O'HANLON: "So you'd like for him to lighten up a little more on the kids, and you would like for her to support you a little more in keeping the rules and the boundaries," and I suspect that's what you were saying. I'm sorry, I couldn't listen to you both at the same time. All right? Yeah?
AUDIENCE: "Both of you really want what's best for the kids. Sometimes you really disagree on how to get there, but it sounds like both of you really want the kids to turn out well, and you're really concerned about their futures."
O'HANLON: You're good at that mutual thing. That's a good one, you're good at that. I bet you do that a fair amount. That's good. Yeah. "Both of you really want what's best for the kids. Sometimes you really disagree on how to get there, but it sounds like both of you really want the kids to turn out well, and you're really concerned about their futures." That's it. You'll get both of them nodding really quickly, and all of a sudden�when they came in at odds�they'll be going, "Hey! Yeah, we are together on that. Now we just disagree on the means." Then, "So let's talk about it. So sometimes, she sees you as really the ogre and really tough, and a lot of times, you see her as really letting them get away with a lot more than you would let them get away with." Then again, they're both nodding. All right?
Okay. Good. I think you've got this. All right? Pretty straightforward. This, to me, is the beginning of creating that atmosphere of nonblame and nondiscouragment, because they come in so blaming and so discouraging, typically, that in the first couple of minutes, all of a sudden, I'm doing this, and they're...I can tell they're lightening up. It usually takes about seven or eight minutes before they start to calm down a little and realize they're not going to get blamed, and they're going to be heard and understood. Also, they feel a little more hopeful, just at the very beginning here. They don't go back into the old pattern�typically�of what they do at home. All right?
All right. Let's get to step two, then. Step two, another way that I like to bypass blame and get the change happening pretty quickly, which is the brief in the brief couples therapy , is to encourage what I call action talk . I actually learned this from various places, but from a guy named Fernando Flores. Fernando Flores, I went to a workshop of his called the Action Workshop. He's the former finance minister of Chile�interesting guy. He was part of the Allende government, and the government got overthrown and he got put in prison in Chile, as often happens. You know, a military junta takes over; he's in prison.
He's miserable, not just because he's in prison and separated from his family�he has five kids and a wife�he's really discouraged, because he had such high hopes for Chile. He really wanted Chile to be a great place. Instead, the government's overthrown, the military's taken over, and there's repression again. Ugh. So he gets visited by an old family friend, Humberto Maturana, who is a Chilean biologist who's had an influence on family therapy.
Maturana says, "You know your big problem, Fernando, is you guys in the government, you didn't know how to use language." He said, "What do you mean?" He said, "There's a way to use language." He's a biologist, so he has this theory that language evolved to coordinate action between beings�between people, if you want to get more specific, in this instance, but he thinks animals use language too. So between people. "And you didn't learn how to use language to coordinate action, and that's why your government failed." At first he thinks it's a crazy idea. But he gets more and more intrigued in this, and then Fernando Flores [ sic ] comes and brings him books in prison, and he's reading these things, and he's convinced: Language is at the base of how they failed.
So he finally gets out of prison, he goes to the United States. He's in exile, he gets a Ph.D. in linguistic philosophy, and he learns about this part of language called performatives. Performatives are, you know, like...most language is descriptive. Like this is a bottle, this is a glass. But there's some parts of language that aren't descriptive; they're what's called performers; you're performing an action by using language. When a judge says, "Guilty," or "Not guilty," and bangs on the gavel in the courtroom, where the judge has authority, that's not describing something; that's doing something with language. When a minister says, "I pronounce you husband and wife" the couple has to translate that into action language. I had a couple, once, come into me, and here was their opening line: I said, "What brings you here?" and it's, "He's passive-aggressive." I had one of those chairs in my office that had wheels on it, and I start to wheel it away from him a little, and I said, "Is he doing it now?" She laughed and said, "No, he's not doing it now."
I said, "Well, I've just got to tell you that I fell asleep during the lecture in graduate school on passive-aggressiveness, but I vaguely remember, through the haze of my dreams, that it wasn't good. So if he starts doing it during the session, will you let me know? As soon as he starts doing it, so I'll know that he's doing it, because I don't want to get any on me, whatever it is. I remember it wasn't good. She's laughing by now, and I say, "I'm joking with you, because I want you to describe to me...I've read books about it, and I understand generally what it means. When he's doing passive-aggressiveness, what's he doing?"
So I want to translate labels and, "He's just got a lot of anger inside him." "She's a controller." Whatever it may be. Mind reading�as Virginia Satir called it�labeling, and characterization of people into action descriptions. In vague words, translate those into action descriptions, as quickly as possible. So get out of the being, and try and get...because they'll say, "Well, he just has to work through his mother fixation." Usually, that hasn't moved him in a positive direction...for some reason, I don't know why.
So it separates the being and experience from actions, and also, people understand each other differently. I was in a relationship once, I first started going out with my partner, and she said, "You know, we've always gone out to restaurants. I'm really a great cook, I'd like to cook you a home-cooked meal." "Great. Okay." "So why don't you come over Tuesday night." "Great. Okay. When do you want me there?" "Dinnertime." Big mistake, as you might imagine. I show up at six o'clock. she's upset. Dinner was at five-thirty. Now, I grew up in a family where dinner was always at six o'clock. She grew up in a family where dinner was five-thirty.
Now, that's a simple and silly example. But a lot of times people..."He doesn't show me any respect." "Yes, I do. I respect you a lot." "No, you don't." But they never clarified�as your question, and I think it was a good question�"What do you mean, sex?" Because sex means different...you know, ask Bill Clinton. What does this mean? What does sex mean? Is it oral sex? "No, that's not sex." Gee, I would have thought it was, but okay.
So I think love is a verb�I also think it's a noun, but we'll talk about that later�that love is certainly a feeling, but I think it's cultivated and supported by actions. It's also destroyed by actions. Again, once I saw Virginia Satir, and she was working with a couple, and she said to the couple�and I thought it was really effective�she said, "What does love look like and sound like to you? And what does love look and sound like to you?"
They had very different descriptions of what it was, and they weren't meeting each other where they were, because he, of course, was doing his definition: "I bring you the money, and I support you and the kids, and I don't drink and I don't hit you." That was his definition of love. She was like, "You know what? I'd like this and this and this. I want somebody who listens to me, somebody who puts their arm around me, someone who can cry occasionally and show me that they're vulnerable." Yeah?
AUDIENCE: There was one time...a couple where she was, "You don't respect me," and the action was, "You walk one ahead and leave me behind."
O'HANLON: Ah, that's great.
AUDIENCE: But he was from New York City and she was from a small town in Louisiana.
O'HANLON: Right, right. Two different time scales. Yeah, yeah. And two different walking styles. That's great. So she says, "You don't respect me." You find out�which is important�what is respect...how does she show you that disrespect? That's an important question. "Well, he walks ahead of me." Well, then, you went on ahead and did your work with them. But the first question...because if you just went on with, "Okay. So this is a disrespectful guy," you haven't got the information you need to take the next step�to me.. All right?
So, I talk about two ways of doing this. One is action talk. If I can't see it and hear it, it's not descriptive; then I don't know what it means, because it's in that realm of respect. Love...communicate...we don't communicate. I see couples that say that all the time...I hear that from them. They're communicating out the yin-yang�not the way they want to, not in a way that works for them, but they're communicating a lot. Even when they're not talking, they're communicating. That's communicating. All right? That's communicating. "We don't communicate." "Oh, yes, you do." All right?
So I want to...what does it look like, what does it sound like. Sometimes I use the analogy of video talk. "If I followed him around while he was doing passive-aggressiveness, with a video camera, and I could record, what would I see on the video camera?" "If I followed him around when he's being disrespectful...?" "If I followed her around when she was being controlling, what would I see?"
Then, of course, I want to ask, "If he were being not controlling...or she were being not controlling...and cooperative, or whatever you say is the other one, or letting go of control, what would it look like and what would it sound like?" So the video tape..."If I were a fly on the wall...I'm not in your household. So when you say you don't get along, what does that mean?" "If I were watching you not getting along..." "Then if I saw you at a time when you were getting along, what would I see then, and hear then?"
So I want to find several things about this, because as...you know, the analogy here is, they deliver a box in your office, and it's just...all you can see is what's stamped on the outside: "Respect." Then I want to find out...I know there's something in that box that is...they have experienced...and observations that go in that box. But I don't know what it looks like. So, as the old thing goes...
Sorry. Give a guy a mic and a remote control, a little computer, and he goes wild.
So, I think there's little pieces of behavior in there�sorry...I just wanted to keep you awake...see if you were still awake there�little pieces of action. Until we unpack the action, and find out [what's in] each of those pieces... I was working with a couple, and that was it. She said, "You don't respect me," and he said, "Yes, I do," and they disagree and they disagree... Finally, I said, "Give me a recent example that he showed you"�now, here's the�"that he showed you disrespect. Not that he was disrespectful...that he showed what you consider disrespect." All right?
So she says, "We were at a party a couple of weeks ago...and one of the things I have to tell you, when we're at the party, I hardly see him. He just disappears. It's like he doesn't know me. So that's going to be important when I tell you. So we're sitting around...we're standing around in a group of about 12 people, and we were talking about politics, and I give my opinion about some political matter, which I know he disagrees with, and he snorts after I give my opinion." I said, "Okay, so that was disrespect to you?" "Yes. Noise came out of his nose, if you want to get more descriptive, right."
I said, "That seemed disrespectful to you?" and he's shaking his head, and I said, "To you, that wasn't disrespectful, but we're talking about her definition now. She sees that as disrespectful, and if you're telling her you respect her, she doesn't see that as respecting; she sees that as disrespect."
So I said, "So give me a sense...it's a party two weeks from now. You're standing around in a group of people, and you give your political opinion. The obvious thing is, he won't snort. But if he were actually...he says he respects you, and if he were actually going to show you that respect, what would he do?" She said, "He'd walk around the circle of people, put his arm around me. Then he'd introduce me to people later in the party, like, 'This is my wife.'"
I said, "Well, how is that respect?" She said, "Well, like, it's showing people he's not ashamed to be associated with me, which he seems, usually, to be. Standing there next to me shows people he's associated with me. He doesn't have to agree with my opinion; I don't care about that. Just not snort, and put your arm around me."
Now, you could ask another person, they would say, "That looks like control. You go and put your arm around the person, like, 'Shut up.' I would have never imagined that was respect." So you have to ask the person, "What looks like respect to you?" Like, "What looks like sex? What is sex to you? What does that mean?" Because you don't know, and sometimes they don't know. They're saying, "We're having a lot of sex," and they've not having sex at all, according to that definition. So what does that mean? "Well, it's just wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. That's not sex." "Oh, okay. Now we're starting to understand. What does it look like? What does it sound like? How do you know you're having sex?" "Oh, okay."
So what I want to do with this is three things: I want to first translate their complaints, which is usually about the other person's being...that person's controlling, they're selfish, they're just like my father, they're just like my mother...all that stuff. They've got a lot of anger inside.
Whatever it is, I want to put down�again, so I don't wander in the molasses�put down another board, which is action complaints : What does it look like and sound like? When did it happen? What specifically happened? To translate the labels�the mind reading, the blaming, and the discouragement�into an action. "This marriage is over." "Well, what kind of things are happening that give you a sense that it's over?" "Give me an example of something that happened recently that, really, you just thought, 'It's over.' What happened?" That's going to be the complaint.
Then the next thing I want to find out is what do they want instead? What would they like? What would the future look like if they were getting more of what they wanted and less of what they didn't want? So that's an action request. Again, this language comes from Fernando Flores.
Complaints, then requests, and then this is my particular one: action appreciation . That is, "Tell me about a time when the sex was good and you did have sex. Tell me about a time when he showed you respect that kind of surprised you. Tell me about a time when you two did work something out, in a way that you really appreciated. Tell me about a time when you two both did get together on the parenting, and it went better."
I'm going to ask about those moments. Again, that's the solution-oriented bit, just so you know. Then, the person starts to hear, "Well, it isn't so bad. She does notice when I do good things." Or, "It isn't so bad; we do work together, on occasion." Or, "He does notice something that I've done that's good." All right? So instead of saying, "He was really loving this week," I want to find out what he did that was loving. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: "She always nags me about this and has never relaxed about it."
O'HANLON: Right. Absolutely. Never has. "She always nags me about this and has never relaxed about it." "Okay. Well, that's fine. If that hasn't happened, we'll work to get it to happen. So it sounds like that's what you'd really want to have happen: If you do something around the house, you do it not in her way, not in a perfect way, but she really lets you know that she appreciated you did it. That'd be really important for you." "Yes." "And you'd really like it done up to certain standards, and he thinks you can't let go of all those standards; you have to have it done exactly to specifications, or you can't let him know that you appreciate what he does, so he just gives up. He's just given up."
So I just go back and forth, they're the same way. It may not have ever happened. It may have happened and they don't remember at the moment. But sometimes it hasn't�it's never happened that he's helped around the house, or whatever.
Let me give you an example. I'm working with this couple, and I get referrals a fair amount from this local 28-day substance abuse program. They referred me a couple afterwards, and he's been sober six months, after drinking for 12 years of their marriage, and before that, obviously. So she says, "You know, I thought when he got sober, everything would be better. It's not better. I thought it was the alcohol. Now I realize it's him. He's just selfish, self-absorbed�he doesn't care about anybody but himself. He's going to five AA meetings a week, and it's my same complaint: He used to be lost to the bottle; now he's lost to his AA stuff. Even when he's home, he's so self-absorbed, I don't want to be in the marriage anymore."
So he agrees he's fallen down on the job of being a parent�they have a nine-year-old�parent and a husband. He hasn't really put the time and the energy into it, because he's been really focused on his recovery. But he's willing to try, and he doesn't think the marriage should end; she thinks the marriage should end�it's over.
All right. The first time, they ran late and we didn't have much time, so all I was able to do was get a little understanding, a little acknowledgment, and that was it, and he offered to try to make changes. So they come back two weeks later, actually, and I said, "What's happened?" She said, "Well, I don't feel angry at him anymore; I just feel sorry for him. He's going to end up alone and bitter, because he can't care about anybody but himself."
At this point, he explodes in anger. He said, "I really made an effort the last two weeks, and she didn't notice any of it." I said, "What did you do?" He said, " Thousands of things." I said, "Well, just give me one or two, that's good enough for me." "Give me an example that you really tried to come out of this. She'd said you were selfish." One of the things she'd complained about was he was reading the paper all the time, or you know, watching TV, and he was attending to his...he had a home-based business, so he's spending a lot of time on that too.
So, you know, "Give me an example." He said, "Well, the other day, she came home from work"�she worked outside the home�"I saw her drive in the driveway. I turned off the TV, I put down the paper. I met her at the door. She had some groceries in her hand. I picked up the groceries from her hand. I walked them to the kitchen, and I helped her put the groceries away. Then it came time to cook the meal, and I cooked the vegetable�I cut it up and I cooked it."
I turned to her and I said, "It sounds like he's made some effort. Did you notice that effort?" She said, "Well, I didn't know he'd turned off the television and put down the paper, because that happened before I came in, but I guess I should have noticed, because he's almost always watching the television and reading the paper when I come home. So I didn't notice that. Sorry." All right.
So I said, "What about the grocery thing and the cooking?' Then she said, "You know, I don't mean to sound terrible about this, but that's not what I want." He gives me this look like, "See, you know what I have to put up with? She can never be satisfied," which was his complaint about her. So I said, "Well, no, wait. What would you want in that situation?"
She said, "Well, you know, it's three steps from the front door to the kitchen. I didn't need help with the groceries. But I guess it's nice that he did, but that's not what I'm looking for." She said, "He put away the groceries in the wrong place. We've been fighting so much, I didn't say anything, because he doesn't usually help around the kitchen." She said, "I used to be a full-time, at-home mom, and I love cooking. It's my way of coming down and decompressing from work. He was just kind of in the way. Yes, I suppose some women would love that, but that's not what I want. I don't care if I cook all the meals; I kind of like that. That isn't what I want."
I said, "Well, what do you want? What's not selfish to you?" She said, "If he'd sit down or"�we talked about it for awhile�"if he'd sit down and listen to me." He said, "I listen to you." She said, "No, you don't. When I come home from work, you sit and tell me all the things that have gone on with your day and complain about this S.O.B. and this thing that happened and tell me the exciting news that...you know...and I listen. And you never ask how my day was."
He said, "Yes, I do." She said, "No, you don't. You asked me once 11 years ago and I told you, and it took me two hours. I'd had a terrible day and you never asked again." He didn't believe it; he actually thought he had asked. But she'd been keeping careful track for 11 years, and she swore that he'd never ask again. He agreed that he didn't ask very much, but he wasn't sure he would agree with not once in 11 years.
I said, "But regardless of whether you disagree about what's happened in the past, but it's clear that's what you'd like." Then we got more specific. "How long would...what would listening to you look like?" Would he have to make eye contact? Would he have to ask follow-up questions? Nod in the right places when she was talking...that kind of stuff. And how long? Fifteen minutes a night is all she needed. Monday through Friday; he'd have the weekends off. It was during work times. That was really important to her, that they connect after she came home from work.
All right. So I said, "So that's what she would like you to do, and that would show her that you weren't selfish and that you cared for her." There were other things about their child and family time together and things like that, but that was one of them. We got to the end of the discussion, and she just said, "He'll never do it." That was her line: "He'll never do it."
I said, "It sounds like she's pretty skeptical that you're even capable of doing it, and certainly that you're going to do it." I said, "Do you think you're capable of doing it?" He said, "Absolutely." I said, "Do you think you will do it?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Will you commit to doing that? For the next two weeks, before we see each other again, will you commit to at least 15 minutes a night listening�in the definition we've just given it�and showing an interest in her day and asking her about it?"
"Yes." He said, "What we didn't tell you is that night, we had a two-hour argument." He said, "If I'm just going on time, I'd rather switch 15 minutes for two hours anytime." But he said, "I think this will make us get along a lot better, and it'll show her that I do want to make an effort."
Now, he was making an effort before that; it just wasn't meeting her. She wasn't seeing his effort, because it didn't fit her definition of what she wanted, and she said, "He knows how to show me that he cares and that he's not selfish." He didn't. He knew his own model for how to show...you make more money, you bring in the groceries, you help with the vegetable, you vacuum. Other people would say, "That's it. I want him to vacuum and help with the vegetable." But for her, that wasn't it. I would think that's it�you know, vacuum a little more, help with the vegetable, put away the groceries�that's good stuff. But without asking her, we don't know what's her definition and what she wants.
So I want to know what their complaint is, what the request...and what the appreciation...has it ever happened, and if it's happened, I want to know what it looks like, and what it sounds like. All right? Yeah?
AUDIENCE: I know that's really not what you typically do, and I know you're making an effort. I really appreciate that."
O'HANLON: Yeah. "I know that's really not what you typically do, and I know you're making an effort. I really appreciate that." Yeah. We don't do too much of that, especially when we've gotten to this point. You know, "Huh, that was stupid," whatever. I mean, it just really feels undermining.
Well, I'll tell you a quick example too. We saw a couple in our clinic that couldn't get a divorce, because they couldn't figure out custody of their dog. They both loved the dog, and they were not willing to give up the dog. So they stayed with each other, destroying each other every day, for a couple of years. Finally, they come in for couples therapy, and it's difficult, because they're so embittered and they're so mean to each other, by this point, it was really hard. Then we finally discovered the key to turning it around: It's the dog.
Her main complaint is he doesn't attend to her. Like he'll walk in the house, he won't say hi, he'll go right upstairs, take a shower, lay down on the bed, and watch TV for awhile. By then, she's ready to take an ax to him. She's so mad at him, because he's disrespected her by walking in and not even acknowledging that she's there. All right?
She'd like him to sit next to her on the couch and put his arm around her, but he wants to sit in his chair, and she sits on the couch, while they're watching TV or something. So we find out, what does the dog do in those situations? He walks in the door and the dog's like. And the dog won't leave him alone until he acknowledges the dog.
So we said, "The dog is now your guru. He is going to teach you how to get a response from your partner. What would the dog do if he was sitting on his chair, and he wasn't attending to the dog?" Like this, under his arm, under his arm, wet nose on his bare arm. He'd get it, the dog would get that response. So the same thing, that she wasn't affectionate with him, she barked at him kind of thing, you know. So, "How can you get a different response?" They both used the dog as their teacher and they got better responses from each other, and they started to treat each other nicely, because they always treated the dog nicely. They treated each other worse than they treated the dog�much worse than they treated the dog. So that was their model for how to do that, what you were talking about.
This is a song...actually, I wrote a book called Love is a Verb , and someone called me one day and said, "Hey, this country singer, Clint Black, is on Oprah, and he says he read this book called Love is a Verb and he wrote a song about this. So turn on the TV; it's on now." So I went out and got this song. I think he expresses it well.
All right. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: "Yeah, well, if I have to tell him or her, then it's not a..."
O'HANLON: Sure. "Yeah, well, if I have to tell him or her, then it's not a..." I say, "Well, you know, look, first of all, we have different understandings..." and so I tell stories about dinnertime and things like that. "The second thing is, sometimes you have to prime the pump." I used to go visit my cousins who lived on a farm in Nebraska when I was growing up, and they had an old pump. It hadn't been used for awhile, and I'd go out there and I really wanted the water to come out. My cousin showed me a trick: You take a bucket of water and you pour it down there...right down the spigot. And it joins with the water that's there and it comes right out�you don't have to pump for so long."
I say, "So we're trying to prime the pump; that's all we're doing." We're giving her or him some instructions to start the water flowing. Then it should happen spontaneously after awhile. But at first, it's not spontaneous. When you first drove a car, did it feel comfortable or easy? No. It felt uncomfortable and weird. You didn't it very well, and you needed some instruction and some support to do it. You needed to feel awkward to get to that place where now you can drive in your sleep, and most people do, from what I can tell.
AUDIENCE: "No, it doesn't always have to be her way, but she'd like it a little her way sometimes.�
O'HANLON: Right. So I'd say, "No, it doesn't always have to be her way, but she'd like it a little her way sometimes. So if you could try some of this stuff, that'd be great, because sometimes you're thinking, 'Oh, it always has to be her way, and she's always in control, and it's always her needs.'" I'd say, "It's sometimes her need, sometimes your need, and she'd like to see you put forth a little effort of what she wants."
So again, I minimize it and I don't make it so he always has to do it her way and things like that. I just find that little increment in between. "But I know what you mean, because sometimes it seems that way. 'Well, we have to do it your way or you get upset and then you get angry at me and da, da, da.'" Yeah.
So those are two common objections that I hear. Yeah?
AUDIENCE: You have to get them to that place first.
O'HANLON: Right. So getting them to that place where they do start to appreciate and recognize and acknowledge the efforts the other one has made, even if it doesn't match that. When I was growing up, my father, after a certain point, didn't...like my mother would say, "I love you," and hug...my father would go, "Here's five dollars; don't tell your mother." As a teenager, I knew what that meant. That meant, "I love you, but I'm not good at this, and I don't do it in the way your mom does it." I realized...and as an adult, I really worked with my father, to get him to actually say I love you and be more physically affectionate. It was difficult for him and he barely did it, but he did it a little more. But I could recognize, he was making an effort, even though it wasn't in my map of love. "Here's five dollars, don't tell your mother," is not what I...you know.
Yeah. It meant, "I love you," but I had to translate into my map. Have you ever seen the comedian, Stephen Wright? He said he had a grandmother who did that, "Here's five dollars; don't tell your mother, don't tell friends." He said, "It'll cost you more than that." I like that.
All right. Third step, while we've still just got a few minutes left, but the third step is change patterns . I want the couple to teach me how to do their patterns together. Like, "If I were to create this problem, how would I do it? If I were going to act out my part and your part, how would I do it? If I were to get into a good, juicy argument with you, how would I start it? If I were going to get you to think I didn't respect you, how would I do it? Then how would you respond to me, and how would we go off to the races like we usually go off?" I want them to teach me the pattern of how they do what they do.
Investigate specific incidents, because what I want to find is not just what's happened one time, but what kind of "Here we go again" pattern. "We've been here before. Been there, done that. It's the same damn thing, over and over again." Then I want to give�within the session, if I can find the pattern in the session�I want it to be treating sessions, I want to give them something that throws a [spanner] in the works, a monkey wrench in the gears. That's it. All right? Something that changes and stops the pattern. That's it.
To start with, we're going to go through some slides, because I've miscalculated my time, as usual, so we're going to have some quick subliminal learning. I just want to show you, doing this as a couple, the easiest way I know is to find out a moment when things have gone better. Now, they'll usually give you their label for it, but I want to find the description of it. So I'll show you this with a couple. Here's a great song you would have really liked.
There's a pattern saying, "The only difference between a rut and a grave is the dimensions," when people have gotten into pretty big ruts in their relationship. All right?
AUDIENCE: It's over at a quarter to five.
O'HANLON: Quarter to five? That's like eight minutes from now. Don't worry, I've got a nine-minute video. So yeah, I just want to show you this video really quickly. This is a couple that I saw, and they have an argument and then they don't talk for three days, like silence between them. They call it the glass wall, or ice, that goes between them. So I say, "Okay. So that happens. Tell me about a time when you come back together a little more quickly. Or even when you don't come back together a little more quickly, after three days, you do start to come back together, so how do you do it after three days?"
So I investigate two things. One is exceptions to the usual pattern, which is the quickest way to do it. The other one is, what happens when the problem pattern ends and they go back to the better ways of relating? So this is...sorry?
AUDIENCE: Who are they?
O'HANLON: Let's go back. This is Chris and Amy, who have been a couple for about a year and a half. I think it sounds like I'm going to have to turn up the video here, so let's do that.
AMY: I told Bill that, basically, I've noticed that the last three times that I've gone into my mini crises has been when he has challenged me about the kids, when you've wanted it to be different around the children. And like first of all, being very unclear about that myself, feeling like I should get rid of the children, and anger coming up and my not realizing it was anger, and not wanting to fight, not wanting to confront you, not wanting to say, "No, that's not the way I want it to be." Then I get very ashamed of how I'm acting.
CHRIS: In terms of the children, or in terms of the way you're interacting for you?
AMY: I think at the moment, reacting to...
CHRIS: Reacting and withdrawing and...
AMY: Oh, okay.
O'HANLON: �now withdrawing � and feeling this tension between the two of you...
CHRIS: Yes.
O'HANLON: ...you call it a glass wall, sometimes, like there's this thing that's come between the two of you...
CHRIS: Right.
AMY: Right.
O'HANLON: ...that neither of you like...certainly don't like. You certainly don't like it. I assume you don't like it either.
AMY: Yeah.
CHRIS: Yeah. No, and I know when the line's crossed; I know when she goes into that place, and then I spend like two days trying to unring the bell, and there's no way of doing it.
O'HANLON: Yeah.
CHRIS: There's just no way to do it. It's not like I can say, "Okay, it's time for you to stop feeling like that," and I'll be like this. Because I've been in the same place, where she's done something that's pissed me off and I've gone into a place where I just cannot...
O'HANLON: You're not very available for the next couple of days, the next couple of hours, or whatever.
CHRIS: Right, and I can't...yeah, however long it takes. But sometimes it's...it takes much longer than...you know, than I even think it should, and...
AMY: Right.
CHRIS: ...I'm like, "Amy, for godsakes, snap out of this." But then I...you know, in the very next moment, will turn around...and it's a little more difficult, I think, for me, to be direct, and I tend to sort of act out in ways that are trying to get the same point across, but I can't communicate it that way, so what I do is I...you know, I use the very mature things, like sarcasm and, you know, digs, and...you know.
O'HANLON: Get the love and the concern...
CHRIS: That's right.
O'HANLON: ...that fear across. But I wonder, between the two of you, examining two more things, then. One is what you could do at that moment, if she's not back to center, to invite her back to center, invite her back into the relationship, what you could do. We'll find out about that.
CHRIS: Threats, maybe.
O'HANLON: Threats. I think this...threats...
CHRIS: Yes. And if you were threatened...
O'HANLON: ...adding to the sarcasm...adding to the sarcasm, threats, I think, would be great. Yeah. I think that could work. But maybe we'll find some other things.
CHRIS: Right.
O'HANLON: So what you could do at that moment, and what you two have found in your relationships that pulls you through those moments. Then, once we find what it is, maybe doing it more deliberately, because it happens like after two days or three days or whatever, the alienation and threats and all, something melts and you find a connection.
CHRIS: I think we start missing each other is what happens.
AMY: Yeah.
O'HANLON: Okay, but that's fine, and that's why it happens. Then I would want to find out how it happens. Once you start missing each other, what are the moves that each of you make? What are the responses that each of you give, and see if we can import those a couple of days earlier. That would be nice.
So let's just go into that that moment, because that's, I think, a nice place to start. It's weird-out time between the two of you. Whoever started it, whoever's [gone to] weird-out, it doesn't matter. Now it's coming back together, it's a couple of days later, it's a couple hours later, it's, you know, minutes later�whatever it is�a day later. You're starting to come back together.
I want to hear a couple of those incidents in which the tension is dissolving and you're reconnecting. What happens? Not why did it happen, when you miss each other. What happens? Who says what? How does the other person respond? They may be different things. They may be two or three things that typically happen, but I want to find out what they are.
O'HANLON: So we're going to find two solutions with them...the ways they come back together and the glass wall...and the ice melts.
O'HANLON: You know, "One of us reaches over and just touches the other one on the arm or something." It's just like a little bit of contact. I don't think you're...
AMY: Yeah.
O'HANLON: The little touch, saying, "You know, I'm reaching out a little here."
AMY: Mm-hmm.
O'HANLON: If the other person says, "Like what!?"
AMY: Yeah.
O'HANLON: ...if the other person goes, "Okay. And doesn't pull away..."
AMY: Right.
O'HANLON: "...and there's a little opening there." So what happens in those moments...if you can bring me back to those moments when things are going fair? When things start to melt between the two of you, the tension starts to dissolve, the closeness starts coming back, when you miss each other, when it's starting to thaw between the two of you?
AMY: I have some examples.
O'HANLON: Great.
CHRIS: Oh, I can.
AMY: Go ahead. When I said, "Oh " Yeah. Sometimes humor is actually...
CHRIS: Sometimes it melts the anger.
O'HANLON: �stand-up comedian. She thinks humor works great, it actually doesn't.
CHRIS: It's not so great.
AMY: That's right.
O'HANLON: Chris finds it disrespectful to use humor.
CHRIS: I don't like to joke about this.
AMY: Yeah.
O'HANLON: But first, they go to another one.
AMY: Yeah. It's not important now.
O'HANLON: A time when it happened that one day they got back together in like within four or five hours.
CHRIS: That when it begins to thaw is usually phone contact. For some reason, if we've separated...
O'HANLON: Yeah?
CHRIS: ...and I've gone somewhere or she's stayed there or she went somewhere and I stayed there or we both went to different places, then if we talk on the phone, like when you went to the beach, then it gave...if we're alone with different people in completely different worlds... Like she was down with her family for a day. Then I got a phone call, you know, and it was...the ice had melted.
AMY: Mm-hmm.
O'HANLON: Because she needed, and also she calls up, and somehow, it's not in the same, you know, the same environment that you were in.
AMY: Right.
O'HANLON: ...the phone contact makes it easier to build that bridge again...
AMY: Yeah.
CHRIS: Mm-hmm.
O'HANLON: ...just connect again. Okay.
CHRIS: Mm-hmm. So you run downstairs and call me from there.
O'HANLON: Figure out what works, and then do it in whatever creative ways you can, quicker to melt the ice. So that's one thing to try. It may work; it may not. I don't get the distinction between the sarcastic humor and the good humor that breaks the ice, and I have the same thing, because I can be very cutting with my humor, when I'm hurt or upset or whatever, and I also can have a really wonderfully, undermining, you know, of all the seriousness...and it's hard for me to define the difference.
CHRIS: Yeah. And at another point, we got into a tiff about something, and she was making her point and, you know, up on her soapbox and something I said, "Oh, stop it. You're getting very ugly. When you tell me..."
O'HANLON: He said, "You're getting ugly and she thought that was funny."
CHRIS: "Shhhhh! You're getting very ugly!"
O'HANLON: That's right.
AMY: And I got hysterical, yeah.
CHRIS: It was endearing.
O'HANLON: Chris said, "No, let's just talk." It was in a soft voice and it wasn't humor.
AMY: I think it was cute. It was not something...it was just, "Shhhh...." you know, it was very gentle.
O'HANLON: I mean, it's different energy for you, but how it comes across to you is one of the ways it softened the hard edge that could have been there with that, you know, with saying you're ugly."
AMY: Yeah. Right.
O'HANLON: That gentle the voice.
AMY: Yeah, the voice.
O'HANLON: ...that tone in the voice, and then we were joking about it. In one of my relationships, the person had a tendency to withdraw. I don't know why, but it seemed to...I didn't realize this until after this change happened, but I must have been absolutely terrified that she was going to leave me. So she reaches over during one argument and just touches me on the knee. I'll tell you, it was like, the whole thing.
AMY: I know how that feels.
O'HANLON: It's just like, she doesn't think I'm terrible and she's not going to leave today, right now, this minute.
AMY: Yeah.
O'HANLON: It was that touch that softened...nothing else. I mean, she's still pissed at me and I really didn't like what she did, and we're still arguing about it. There's this underlying thing, and that's what you're talking about. I mean, some primitive "thing" thing.
CHRIS: Yeah. She's going to leave me.
AMY: Mm-hmm.
CHRIS: She's going to go away. Not even she's going to leave me. She's going to go away.
AMY: Yes.
O'HANLON: And disappear from the earth. I don't know what.
CHRIS: Yeah.
O'HANLON: It's this permanent-like solar feeling, like I don't know what it is going on.
CHRIS: Yeah.
O'HANLON: But it's like, and then you get more defensive and freaked out.
AMY: Right.
O'HANLON: So it's that physical touch�if it's not, again, done in anger like that; the voice tone�somehow a reassurance saying, "You know, I'm pissed as hell, and I still love you and I'm still going to be with you."
AMY: Mm-hmm.
CHRIS: Mm-hmm. That would help today.
O'HANLON: I just wanted you to get a sense of pursuing the changes in patterns, and also just that validation and softening that goes on through the thing.
So, again, this is a big topic to take on in an hour and a half. So I just want to, before we end�you know how I like stories and I like to tell stories�so I just want to tell you a quick story to send you out on to your next session, if it's the one with me on spirituality or with somebody else...it starts in a minute or two.
What I'd say is that years ago, I read this story about a guy who taught parenting classes. They were called Ten Commandments for Parents and they were great classes. He'd teach for about 200 people, and he was clear...he had ten simple principles for being better parents. Parents are always looking for some help with the difficult job of parenting.
So he taught this and it was a really popular class, and he kept teaching, but he didn't have any kids himself. He kept teaching, and finally, he met the woman of his dreams and they had a child together. He kept teaching for another year, and he retitled the class from Ten Commandments for Parents to Five Suggestions for Parents. Then he and his wife had another child, and he retitled the class, Three Tentative Hints for Parents. Then he and his wife were blessed with twins, and he stopped teaching all together.
So I hope you hold what I was saying today as three tentative hints for how to help couples change. You've got to find your own truth and your own way of doing this within this. Don't take this too solidly. Don't take it for granted; take it for just some possibilities.
So thank you for being here. Thank you.
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